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*** The 2010 Ollies Post Mortem ***


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#81 macwemyss

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 12:06 AM

Yup, I basically agree with Biz completely.

I notice that STILL nobody has answered my question regarding what the actual benefit of a committee would be, so I figure cutting down some of the categories is probably the way to go in order to get more nominations. As has been mentioned several times before, nobody HAS to submit nominations.

And, as Killian said, there was always the option of putting "-----" in categories you don't want to nominate in. Apparently a lot of people did that this year. So, essentially there isn't a requirement for anyone to nominate someone for every category :P

Stvn... people are already having trouble finding ONE nominee for each category... how the hell do you expect them to find FOUR?? I'm not trying to shoot you down, just asking...

Anyway, I'm not just going to say "cut down categories", I'm gonna suggest ones we could cut, and give reasons why. You may not agree with me but these are just my suggestions...

First to go I think should be the self-congratulatory awards like the Thong de Roger (although I get that one is more of a running joke so wouldn't bother too much if it was kept as it is easy to nominate and vote on :P), Best PR Campaign and Best Radio Guest (especially that one). I would keep Most Helpful Member though. Yeah, it may seem like the nominees are gonna look similar each year but hey, maybe if more people started being more helpful that might change :P

I definitely suggest getting rid of the more vague awards, such as Best Director and Best Writer. I would reword Best Director to have it tied down to a specific film the nominee has directed so that way it's judged on something they've actually done that year, (like the voice acting awards) rather than basing it on past reputations. I'd get rid of Best Writer completely because we already have Best Screenplay ;)

I think the voice acting awards need to be narrowed down to just Best Voice Actor and Best Voice Actress. As Biz said earlier in the thread, there is too much confusion over what constitutes as leading and supporting roles. In short films like ours I don't think there's any point saying anything other than Best Actor and Actress.

I don't agree with Biz about the genre awards being scrapped completely, but I'm all for getting rid of some of the less popular awards, such as Best Mystery, Best War Movie, Best Arthouse and Best Fantasy. I just feel there aren't enough films submitted under those categories over the course of the year for there to be a point in keeping them. I'd also be tempted to get rid of Best Action, Best Musical and Best Western, if they weren't such big categories, basically because there really aren't enough films made for those categories. Well, I wouldn't scrap Best Musical, I'd just rename it to Best Music Video (and clarify that it must be an actual video, because one of the entries this year wasn't even that).

I mean, like Biz said, people struggled so much with Best Western that they nominated a film made 3 years ago... The only thing that might hold me back from either of those two is that a) western is such a refined genre that it probably wouldn't get a look in elsewhere and B) With the absense of a Best War Movie, I think Action and Drama would need to be kept to accomodate those films.

Best Mystery I feel is kinda redundant. All the films nominated for that category were pretty much contenders in other categories so yeah, I'd scrap it. Also, although Fantasy is a very refined genre there just aren't enough films produced in that genre each year, so I think there's no point really keeping it. And yeah, Arthouse even more so. I wouldn't have classed any of this year's nominees for that category as Arthouse.

I would suggest getting rid of all the engine-based awards. I think we are at a stage where all the movie engines can compete on a level playing field. I mean, the Oscars don't create new categories for people who filmed with a handycam in Spain as opposed to someone who filmed in a studio with professional recording equipment. It should be judged on the quality of the movie, not what it was made with. The only one I would keep is Best Live Action, although I would be tempted to get rid of it in future if TMU doesn't start getting more live action submissions. So yeah, I'd narrow those categories down to just Best Live Action Film and Best Picture, renaming it as Best Machinima/Anymation Film (or something along those lines just to clarify that live action isn't eligible).

Based on what people have been saying, I would grudgingly suggest combining the two sound awards into just Best Sound Design. It appears most people don't know what the difference is between the two so there's no point keeping both.

I said this one before, I'd keep Best Short Form Film, cutting it to 10 mins and below, and I'd get rid of Best Long Form Film completely as chances are the nominees for that will be very similar to those in the Best Picture category.

I would either rename Best Machinimatography to Best Visual Design or Best Camerawork, or I'd get rid of it completely as it is fairly similar to Best Director (if it were tied down to a specific film). Best Visual Design is probably the one I'd favour as it goes nicely with Best Sound Design :)

I'd be tempted to get rid of Best Subtitled Film, just because it is one that is very difficult to nominate for (judging by the fact one of the nominees contained a vocal track). It took me a lot of trawling through my favourites list to find my choice, and I had a ready made list of my favourite films from the past year. Somebody less prepared would find it a bit of a nightmare. I just don't really see the point in it to be honest. Less and less films are being made using subtitles and let's be fair, we don't have awards for Best Silent Film or Best Text to Speech Film. I'm in favour of scrapping this one tbh, but wouldn't have a problem if it were kept.

I don't think any of the modding awards need changed tbh, but if we are going to add more categories, I'd suggest no more than two more. I'd be tempted to get rid of Best Mod/Set Use, mainly because it's the director, not the modder, who gets credit for it. Also, it's not always easy to tell with engines other than one's own what is modded and what isn't. It would free up space for a different modding award which is always a good thing.

Best Poster I would have reservations about. I'd suggest either having a separate forum to pimp out posters and give them a lot more exposure, or get rid of the category completely. As it is not enough people are actively making posters for there to really be a point in this category :(

Umm, I think that's all the suggestions I had to make, so here is my revised list of categories. I'm open to any criticism of it, after all it's only my suggestion and I might have had a biased viewpoint on certain issues. I will remind you though that I have suggested cutting several categories I was nominated for/won this year so it's not all biased lol :D


1. BEST MACHINIMA/ANYMATION MOVIE OR SERIES

2. BEST DIRECTION IN A MOVIE OR SERIES

3. BEST PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A MOVIE OR SERIES

4. BEST PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A MOVIE OR SERIES

5. MOST OUTSTANDING TMU NEWCOMER

6. BEST COMPOSER FOR A MOVIE OR SERIES

7. BEST DRAMA MOVIE OR SERIES

8. BEST COMEDY MOVIE OR SERIES

9. BEST WESTERN MOVIE OR SERIES (maybe)

10. BEST ROMANCE MOVIE OR SERIES (maybe)

11. BEST SCI-FI MOVIE OR SERIES

12. BEST ACTION MOVIE OR SERIES (maybe)

13. BEST HORROR MOVIE OR SERIES

14. BEST MUSIC VIDEO

15. BEST TRAILER FOR MOVIE OR SERIES

16. BEST SOUNDTRACK FOR MOVIE OR SERIES

17. BEST SOUND DESIGN IN A MOVIE OR SERIES

18. BEST MOD/SET USE IN A MACHINIMA MOVIE OR SERIE (maybe)

19. BEST COSTUME OR MAKEUP IN A MACHINIMA MOVIE OR SERIES

20. MOST OUTSTANDING SPECIAL EFFECTS IN A MOVIE OR SERIES

21. MOST OUTSTANDING MODDER FOR A MACHINIMA ENGINE

22. BEST CUSTOM MOD FOR A MACHINIMA MOVIE OR SERIES

23. BEST VISUAL DESIGN IN A MOVIE OR SERIES

24. BEST SHORT FORM FILM OR EPISODE (<10 MINS)

25. BEST SINGLE SCREENPLAY FOR A FILM OR SERIES

26. BEST SUBTITLED FILM OR SERIES (maybe)

27. BEST NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE FILM OR SERIES

28. BEST LIVE ACTION FILM OR SERIES

29. BEST MOVIE/EPISODE POSTER (maybe)

30. MOST HELPFUL COMMUNITY MEMBER


So, that would leave us with 24-30 categories, which is much less than what we have now, and would hopefully make it a lot easier for people to nominate. Perhaps even more can be cut from this but it would require someone more ruthless than me lol as this was the most I was able to chop out without feeling I was missing out something important.

Hopefully these suggestions have helped provide a possible direction we could go in terms of narrowing down the categories. Sorry for the ridiculously long post but I felt I should actually explain my points rather than just stating them :)
"Mac is a super-talented frickin genius" - Chris62

#82 stvndysn

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 12:26 AM

hey mac, most of what i say is just thrown in the fire so to speak, im just speaking what i think at the time but i hope something i say may be impliemented.

but in the end i kinda agree with what your saying..

when it came to modding i let my the movies side of me come out and put aside the other communities, when i thought of the categories.

spread over the the different communities i see that yeh 2 categories for modding is sufficient.

#83 goofparade

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 05:40 AM

People of earth...
We are going to need NASA's best and brightest to sort this out at this rate..:33:

My cheap, wooden Canadian nickel's worth...
Keep it simple stupid, "kiss"


...and for gods sake give K4 a sidekick! Preferably one that sounds a bit like Tattoo from "Fantasy Island"
He's working to beat the band out there!!

Edited by goofparade, 10 November 2010 - 05:44 AM.
blurn-masters of the univer-city


#84 thebiz

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 01:55 PM

I suggest Jorge as sidekick #1! Thats entertainment....or perhaps we could kill the best newcomer category and simply vote on the on-air sidekick. Hmm.

I like most of Macs choices. I still like the engine choices over the genre choices with each engine winner being a best picture nominee. But it doesn't kill me to go the other way (scrap the engines and stick with a smaller set of genres).

I would keep the action category and scrap the other 5 "maybes". Allowing multiple nominations in a single category will allow peoples to place their favorite western or war movie in action and their favorite romance in the drama category. I would also scrap the best soundtrack category. You already have best composer, best music video and best sound design. Now your at 24 categories and looking fitter.

I still disagree about short form film. I understand your thoughts on this Mac but I feel differently about the distinction and would omit it altogether.

"So, essentially there isn't a requirement for anyone to nominate someone for every category" - Mac

Make it more explicit so people dont feel like they have to come up with a film/mod/person to fit a category. Award worthy vs best fit.

Oh, and I disagree about renaming best picture. Why is live action not eligible? If its on TMU it should be eligible for best picture.

Obviously this is just discussion and ideas and in the end its not my call. Thanks again for the opportunity to have the discussion.

Edited by thebiz, 10 November 2010 - 02:43 PM.

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#85 WarLord

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 04:35 PM

This whole thing is turning into a train wreck. Glad I'm not sorting this out... somebody is gonna get left out no matter what. Putting ---- in the nom part is great but it doesn't address the final voting requirement. I'm hearing a lot of grumbling about this thread from folks that wont voice it here. Kinda hard to cut one genre without cutting them all which wouldn't be a bad idea to reduce the categories and maybe the engines too. Now... who is not gonna participate because of that? Depends on how many you gain versus how many you lose. This is now a no win situation in some ways but as long as it gets more voting then I guess we shouldn't care about who gets their feelings hurt. Its also stirring up the popularity contest part of it, which to my knowledge will be there no matter what is decided. People need to voice their concerns here and not just in private but that won't happen so that needs to considered if this is actually a community thing and not a "I want it this way" thing.

Good luck to the Ollie producers on this one. Wouldn't want your job but you do it well.

I LIVE to anymate, irritate and machinamate. Not necessarily in that order.


#86 shidden

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 06:20 PM

im following this thread for quite a while now... and i must say... its total chaos, a disaster and outta my league.

i hate awards... makes no sense to me... but thats only my opinion. a good thing is, my movies never ever will get an award, and im thankful for that, coz my goal is something else.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


#87 macwemyss

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 07:15 PM

I suggest Jorge as sidekick #1!


I agree with this wholeheartedly! :D
"Mac is a super-talented frickin genius" - Chris62

#88 thebiz

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 06:13 AM

Keeping it short, the words "trainwreck" and "disaster" have come up here. I feel, this has been a very releveant and useful thread.

I feel that certain people have voiced their opinions and have heard and been heard by others on this thread. I have enjoyed and found usefull the views from others who have made their voice clear (even if I have disagreed with them). I do not feel this is train wreck but rather a long and sometimes convuluted way for members to get their voice heard. It often takes patience.

Edited by thebiz, 12 November 2010 - 06:44 PM.
to drunken rambley

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#89 WarLord

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 04:14 PM

Sorry to disagree Biz but thats just the way it is. I have not heard one positive comment about this thread outside of the thread and have encouraged those to participate that are unhappy about it. I too believe in open discussion and for anyone to say otherwise is just plain nonsense. This discussion is not limited to this thread. Or... if you don't participate in the thread then your opinion is not important? I believe a community event is just that... community... not just a vocal few. The true test of the thread will be how well any changes are received by the community in next years voting. And some people, though I disagree, have become very upset about some of the things posted here. I am not for ignoring things that could effect the event that the organizers work so hard on.

Hopefully there will be more noms and voting next year no matter what the outcome. I'm sure when this thread was started a lot of things were considered that could come of it including negative impact on some community members.

As to myself... I'll be happy with whatever the organizers decide because they do all the work while we do all the bitching and whining.

So... yes.. I'll say it again... its a train wreck in my opinion.

I LIVE to anymate, irritate and machinamate. Not necessarily in that order.


#90 riott007

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 07:33 PM

is somebody secretly complaining? I hear there are some people out in the world that are concerned about what other people think about them or lack balls....but honestly, just tell them to hang out with the rest of us on this dirty bathroom floor..nobody is going to judge them on their opinion except for the judgemental. (There's free doritos)

#91 Killian

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:13 AM

Just to reiterate, yes we do welcome feedback... but not the "X,Y, Z sucked this time; do it differently" kind, as that's bugger all use to anybody :)

If anyone had or has a problem with how things were done (or are being talked about possibly being done), they are quite welcome to discuss it here in a civil and constructive manner. As a friend of mine is apt to say (paraphrasing here) "to criticise and tear down is easy; to suggest and come up with constructive alternatives is much harder and requires a lot more effort".

If people don't want to do so publically, but do have something they want to air, they are quite welcome to PM me and I will anonymously post it on their behalf (though I can't see any reason why someone would want to do so, as we are eager for useful comments and suggestions... provided they ARE useful and not just general moaning and whinging, as that doesn't solve anything and certainly isn't constructive).

As I've tried to reiterate several times here and there, the whole thing is a community event and therefore needs the suggestions of everyone who's interested, so we get the broadest spectrum possible.

In a way, it's good to see that there is a depth of feeling about the whole thing, but let's not lose sight of the end goal; an event designed for everyone to enjoy that doesn't require months and months of effectively a "second job" for a few to organise, yet allows everyone who wishes to participate a voice in how it works.

And, equally importantly, gives fair coverage of as much of what is involved in making movies using 3d animation engines as possible (without going over the top, which is the biggest sticking point of the whole thing, really).

We've had some good, considered ideas so far, and we're certainly interested in as many good ideas and ways of doing things as we can possibly get to make it better next year.

Of course, if no-one was bothered but are content to grumble about it, they are quite content to do the organising next year, should they so wish. Equally, if no-one was bothered about it, the chances of there being an Ollies 2011 would be pretty remote, anyway!

Remember; if you don't say anything, how can we know if you don't like something? And if you don't say WHY you don't like it, and suggest another way we could do it, you can't blame anyone but yourself for not bringing it up if it doesn't happen (mind reading isn't a skill many of us possess, unfortunately!).

Edited by Killian, 16 November 2010 - 12:37 AM.
Added an important bit on second reading I missed first time round :)


#92 Dulci

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 04:26 AM

I am not going to comment on everything, because there's too many different issues....here's my current two cents:

1) I don't like the idea of highlight reels because they aren't really a true representation of the full movie
2) I don't think longer movies are automatically better than shorter movies
3) I think it should be fine for people to promote their movies (aside from highlight reels) in any way they want for the Ollies (assuming there is no Ollie committee). In the Oscars the judges watch all the movies; in the Ollies there's no guarantee that every movie has been watched by the people nominating so it seems fair to get out there and promo yourself a bit.

#93 6hm

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 10:57 PM

I ate my 2 cents
If you want to hear it
please wait a day or two when i shit em out!
I have 20 friends.... TMU tells me so!!:taz:

#94 goofparade

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 03:30 AM

I ate my 2 cents
If you want to hear it
please wait a day or two when i shit em out!



Oh lordy.. where were you yesterday when I needed a laugh??

A day or 2?? Man you really have a slow metabolism.

#95 6hm

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 06:05 PM

yesterday?
I do beleive i was at my sex addicts meeting

and my slow metabolism is how i keep my girlish figure:)
I have 20 friends.... TMU tells me so!!:taz:




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