Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

No Catchy Name Competition Proposal


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 Ken White

Ken White

    Foul Owl on the Prowl

  • Administrators
  • 3,233 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:44 PM

(though perhaps as part of this discussion somebody can come up with a catchy name)

Having talked to a few members of the community over the past couple of months about a big community competition, something finally clicked in my mind and I blurted out some preliminary ideas on last week's Sunday show....

My initial idea was a pure film-making competition - the competitors are given a script and the recorded lines of dialogue, and make the film in their engine of choice. The thought was that it takes the burden of writing a story and casting out of the process for the director and lets him or her concentrate on actually making a film. Because each film-making engine used around here has strengths and weaknesses, things it does well and things it does less-well, the director could craft a story, based on the dialogue, that best reflects the strengths of the platform as well as their strengths as a director.

Then RPOshard suggested that we make it a two-stage competition, with the first part for writers. The idea is that the chosen script would be primarily dialogue (or all dialogue, for that matter) and dialogue that could work in many genres - keeping in mind that some engines/platforms do some genres better than others or more easily than others. So it becomes an interesting writing challenge - the same dialogue, telling different stories - specific enough to the story the director decides to tell, but open to other interpretations. If any of you recall the Mefune Akira Trailer Competition of years past, where he provided 5 lines of dialogue that had to be incorporated in the trailer....this is similar on a much larger scale.

And now I'm thinking we could maybe make it a three-stage competition, and get voice actors into the action. Once we have a winning script, we have interested voice actors compete, through line readings, for the roles (however many there are). Male voice actors do readings of the male parts in the script, female actors for the female parts, and then are cast based on those performances.

The the director goes to work and creates a masterpiece. We give them at least 2 months to make the film (the days of the Ultimate TMOer and one film a week for 5 or 6 weeks have passed - with all the engines/platforms used by community members, some let you make something fairly quickly while others require more time...sometimes a lot more time...).

How we select winners is still to be determined - I am adamant about fairness and level playing fields, and don't like the idea of personalities being part of the mix - I'd like to see the best script, best actors, best film be selected based as exclusively as possible on quality, not popularity.

We'll have prizes - cash, maybe some software, whatever.

So that's the basic outline - film-making is a collaborative effort, and I'd like the competition to reflect that by giving members with various skills and interests a chance to compete and show us the best they got.

I'm interested in hearing your ideas - about the comp as a whole or the various phases - what works, what doesn't, what you'd like to see from the comp, how we can keep it fair and fun.

As we go along in the discussion, we can hopefully refine it, and when it's time to actually announce the competition, have something that we can all be proud of as a community.

Thanks.

Ken

(and if you have a catchy name for the comp, let's hear it!)

TMOAsig.png
TMU_forum01.png


#2 rgr

rgr

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 198 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:59 PM

(though perhaps as part of this discussion somebody can come up with a catchy name)

Having talked to a few members of the community over the past couple of months about a big community competition, something finally clicked in my mind and I blurted out some preliminary ideas on last week's Sunday show....

My initial idea was a pure film-making competition - the competitors are given a script and the recorded lines of dialogue, and make the film in their engine of choice. The thought was that it takes the burden of writing a story and casting out of the process for the director and lets him or her concentrate on actually making a film. Because each film-making engine used around here has strengths and weaknesses, things it does well and things it does less-well, the director could craft a story, based on the dialogue, that best reflects the strengths of the platform as well as their strengths as a director.

Then RPOshard suggested that we make it a two-stage competition, with the first part for writers. The idea is that the chosen script would be primarily dialogue (or all dialogue, for that matter) and dialogue that could work in many genres - keeping in mind that some engines/platforms do some genres better than others or more easily than others. So it becomes an interesting writing challenge - the same dialogue, telling different stories - specific enough to the story the director decides to tell, but open to other interpretations. If any of you recall the Mefune Akira Trailer Competition of years past, where he provided 5 lines of dialogue that had to be incorporated in the trailer....this is similar on a much larger scale.

And now I'm thinking we could maybe make it a three-stage competition, and get voice actors into the action. Once we have a winning script, we have interested voice actors compete, through line readings, for the roles (however many there are). Male voice actors do readings of the male parts in the script, female actors for the female parts, and then are cast based on those performances.

The the director goes to work and creates a masterpiece. We give them at least 2 months to make the film (the days of the Ultimate TMOer and one film a week for 5 or 6 weeks have passed - with all the engines/platforms used by community members, some let you make something fairly quickly while others require more time...sometimes a lot more time...).

How we select winners is still to be determined - I am adamant about fairness and level playing fields, and don't like the idea of personalities being part of the mix - I'd like to see the best script, best actors, best film be selected based as exclusively as possible on quality, not popularity.

We'll have prizes - cash, maybe some software, whatever.

So that's the basic outline - film-making is a collaborative effort, and I'd like the competition to reflect that by giving members with various skills and interests a chance to compete and show us the best they got.

I'm interested in hearing your ideas - about the comp as a whole or the various phases - what works, what doesn't, what you'd like to see from the comp, how we can keep it fair and fun.

As we go along in the discussion, we can hopefully refine it, and when it's time to actually announce the competition, have something that we can all be proud of as a community.

Thanks.

Ken

(and if you have a catchy name for the comp, let's hear it!)

My initial thoughts on the screenwriting part of this is that I can't imagine writing a screenplay without having a complete vision for it. What I mean is, I can't (personally) write a screenplay that's genre agnostic. But I also don't think that's really necessary. The screenplay part of the comp should consider screenplays as their own work, in isolation from the other contest phases? The winning screenplay is then the one that gets used, but the directors can take what ever liberties they feel like taking ... but that brings me to the second part of the comp: the VAs. Not only is that the hardest part of hobbyist film making (getting VAs to do dialogue) but would really make the director's job that much harder if the lines they read are done ahead of time.

I guess that could be part of the challenge though. Unless the film maker can make dialogue changes and solicit the new lines from the winning VAs ...

Anyway, this is an exciting sounding competition!

rgr

#3 Jake

Jake

    Rapid Fire Studios Writer

  • Members
  • 1,676 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 05:44 PM

This sounds good, Ken. I do like the idea, as it would make a great challenge.

One thing though, which sorta goes along with RGR- The VAs. If the directors decide on what the genre is, it could be hard with the way the VOs are recorded. The Voice actor could record their lines in a totally different way than the director imagined. Such as, if the directed wanted to make a horror movie, but the lines are recorded like a comedy type movie or something and visa versa.
Jake :mellow:

#4 stvndysn

stvndysn

    COMING BACK SOON

  • Members
  • 962 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:40 PM

but jake that just makes the genre then a horror comedy doesnt it.

love the idea ken

#5 rposhard

rposhard

    I am the Wogglebug (choo choo ka-choo)

  • Members
  • 562 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:13 PM

This sounds good, Ken. I do like the idea, as it would make a great challenge.

One thing though, which sorta goes along with RGR- The VAs. If the directors decide on what the genre is, it could be hard with the way the VOs are recorded. The Voice actor could record their lines in a totally different way than the director imagined. Such as, if the directed wanted to make a horror movie, but the lines are recorded like a comedy type movie or something and visa versa.


As I recall, when Ken proposed this on the air, the idea was that the voice actors would do five versions of each line and the director would have the freedom to choose the reading that best fits their project.
Posted ImageListen to CEREBUS THE AARDVARK Sundays on TMOA! Second Season scripts 100% complete! Check out the Casting Call Thread HERE!

#6 thebiz

thebiz

    Huge Member

  • Advisers
  • 3,264 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:20 PM

Mmmmm, contest. Exciting stuff. I'm not privy to the radio banter so perhaps I am missing some things but here's my immediate thoughts.

I love the focus on the three sections of moviemaking and this would make it fun to promote at scriptwriting forums and voice acting forums as well as machinima software forums. However, I agree with RGR that creating a script generic enough to fit multiple scenarios is not just difficult but odd (difficult to write, difficult to judge...you end up judging the only the dialog and the way it is written and little of the idea behind it). Same with having VAs do multiple takes on lines with no context.

Consider the possibility of allowing the scripts to be written fully realized by their authors. Then possibly allow the directors to select from the entire pool of scripts. This would allow directors who want to film their own script that chance (write the script and enter it into phase 1).
The VA part is more difficult in the contest context. I don't have any ideas outside of selecting VA winners once the movie is finished. Still, I like having a hook to interest new VAs to the contest.

That's my take anywho. It could work very successfully as stated and my comments could be the sum of all dog poop. Who knows.

Additional fun thoughts...

I would love to see some excellent judges. They don't have to be famous to be qualified but I would really like to see a brief bio and an explanation of what that judge is looking for in a successful entry. Perhaps members of various communities. Winners of the MachinExpo perhaps. Owners of TMU perhaps. People with relevant jobs in various fields.

The overall judging criteria should be fully explained and easily understood.

I would love to see an excellent promotional campaign taken to major scriptwriting forums, VA forums and MachinimaMovieMaking forums. Good looking graphics, good sounding copy, updates, the works. I would volunteer to help work on this but I think we would need additional ambassadors to the various forums who are known by their communities to spread the word and get people excited.

I really think a recurring well run/promoted contest would be a great thing for TMU so yes, I am excited.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


#7 Rik Vargard

Rik Vargard

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 398 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:25 PM

Great idea! Just gave me another one: This shouldn't be only a sort of competition until one point, this could also be a community project.

Just writing as it comes.... Imagine we will made more of this in the future, so for this one we:

Make a poll to let people choose what 3 genres they'd like fort his time.

Make that script comp saying it must be max 15 mins long.

Choose the three best scripts somehow, or make them accessible to all and make a poll again.

Make the three movies BUT with a link to each other, like a multidimensional/mystical thing, or any other good idea, that will bring the three into the one TMU machinima movie of the year... or something.
Since it's all the same dialogues, I think there's a basis of a concept here....

And then big question: How do you choose the directors?

Just throwing this lol

:sorcerer:Rik
:sorcerer: Rik

#8 stvndysn

stvndysn

    COMING BACK SOON

  • Members
  • 962 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:42 PM

i had some other thoughts on the idea..

we could start off with an opening scene.. which is created that doesnt have a genre..

#9 Ken White

Ken White

    Foul Owl on the Prowl

  • Administrators
  • 3,233 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:06 PM

Liking the thoughts and suggestions so far.

On the script thing....which will be the foundation for the movie that the directors will make.....

The filmmakers here all work in an engine/platform that they've chosen based on capability, cost, what works for them, etc. When they sit down to write a script that they intend to film, they know the software they're working in, and it usually helps guide the scenes and story. At least that's my own experience - I won't write a scene or event that I know I can't do with the software (more true when I was working in the Movies, since "technically" you can do damn near anything in iClone if you've got the mad skillz, additional software or cash to buy what you need).

Not a problem if this was a Movies, MovieStorm, iClone, Second Life, etc.-only competition. Those competing in the script portion of the comp would know the limitations. And I guess a script could be written that had a story but was kind of generic on setting - which means the setting couldn't be part of the story.

Maybe Rik's idea has some promise - winning scripts in a few genres, so the filmmakers could work in a genre that gives them the most opportunity to shine using their software.

And certainly, as Biz said, the judging should be open, transparent and clear to everyone. I haven't even given any thought to who we might have a judges - on one level, I'd almost like people who weren't involved in machinima, who look at the finished films as cinematic storytelling without bias based on engine - as for judging the scripts, that's a little easier since a script is a script - the story being told, the way it's told, the dialogue, etc.

Keep the thoughts and ideas and suggestions coming.

TMOAsig.png
TMU_forum01.png


#10 rgr

rgr

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 198 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:35 PM

Liking the thoughts and suggestions so far.

On the script thing....which will be the foundation for the movie that the directors will make.....

The filmmakers here all work in an engine/platform that they've chosen based on capability, cost, what works for them, etc. When they sit down to write a script that they intend to film, they know the software they're working in, and it usually helps guide the scenes and story. At least that's my own experience - I won't write a scene or event that I know I can't do with the software (more true when I was working in the Movies, since "technically" you can do damn near anything in iClone if you've got the mad skillz, additional software or cash to buy what you need).

This is a good point and one I failed to consider. When I write a screenplay, I *try* to ignore the problem of how I'll make the film. I then wind up rewriting the thing to actually make the film in Moviestorm, based on what I think I can actually pull off. I imagine this could be a problem if we write things that would be too difficult to actually produce, but then we can make guidelines to allow judges to evaluate a screenplay with that being one of the dimensions. In fact, often screenplay contests have strict requirements, like at least so many pages but no more than so many pages, no more than so many characters, no more than so much dialogue, no more than so many locations, etc. We can perhaps have a menu of special effects a screenplay is able to use if they so desire (e.g. western gunshot, sci-fi laser, etc.)

So, here is my first pass at some writing criteria:

* minimum of 3 pages
* maximum of 10 pages
* no more than 3 characters with speaking lines
* no more than 3 locations in total
* no more than 3 vehicles of any sort
* may only require special effects from a set list (to be determined by somebody who knows about such things ... I don't really use SFX much)

Obviously, these may not be the right numbers of things to use, but I think these are mostly the right dimensions -- only if we want to constrain the screenplay in order to make the rest of it easier.

rgr

#11 TehPoptartKid

TehPoptartKid

    2+2= Fish!

  • Members
  • 2,125 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:08 AM

:batman:

I heard competition and enter

I'm in!

#12 kkffoo

kkffoo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 483 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

Why not have a skeleton screenplay, with just the dialogue? That way directors can choose the setting to suit their engine, and even change the story by moving dialogue around, adding visual story elements, or using some dialogue out of context..such as spoken to a non speaking characters.
This could be the Eric Morecambe approach, "all the right notes, but not NECESSARILY in the right order"



I would suggest that the script would be quite short as this would mean more people would be likely to take part, and have the ability to spend more time on the visual story telling elements, making each film distinct.
PC still running after clearest yeah! Now noodling with Plotagon.

#13 animagic

animagic

    Too old to be a Junior!

  • Members
  • 32 posts
  • LocationArlington, VA, USA

Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:28 PM

Bumping this up a bit, as I'm just catching up with my reading.

As to creating a movie with dialog already done, I did that using a radio play. Due to YouTube length restrictions at the time, I had to split it up in three parts, the first part being here, if you are interested. I really liked doing it, although it was a lot of work.

Assuming a standard-formatted script, 15 minutes would amount to around 15 pages maximum. I've found that it takes me a week per minute (including post), so 10 minutes/pages is probably more realistic.

I'm not a comedy person, although I like to include some humorous elements, so maybe three different options to choose from would be ideal.

Other than that, great idea! I hope I will be able to participate.

#14 thebiz

thebiz

    Huge Member

  • Advisers
  • 3,264 posts

Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:00 PM

Any rumbles over here?

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


#15 psylentknight

psylentknight

    Member

  • Members
  • 68 posts

Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:56 PM

Why not have a skeleton screenplay, with just the dialogue? That way directors can choose the setting to suit their engine, and even change the story by moving dialogue around, adding visual story elements, or using some dialogue out of context..such as spoken to a non speaking characters.


I highly support that idea, but it'll also take writing it with a very universal mindset into the dialogue. Even if someone wants to add additional dialogue to either accentate what they're doing along with this primary dialogue being given could be considered. So long as they don't transform or remove the primary dialogue, as well.

#16 rgr

rgr

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 198 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:59 AM

Why not have a skeleton screenplay, with just the dialogue? That way directors can choose the setting to suit their engine, and even change the story by moving dialogue around, adding visual story elements, or using some dialogue out of context..such as spoken to a non speaking characters.
This could be the Eric Morecambe approach, "all the right notes, but not NECESSARILY in the right order"



I would suggest that the script would be quite short as this would mean more people would be likely to take part, and have the ability to spend more time on the visual story telling elements, making each film distinct.


I know that personally, I would have a hard time writing a screenplay with only dialogue (even though I've already been accused of doing that. LOL). I guess we can write a full screenplay then extract the dialogue, but I think having separate phases of the competition might be a lot of fun and can work. If we have a screenwriting competition (maybe have each screenplay table read on the air then all voted on at the end of X weeks or something), then the winning screenplay can be made into a movie by film makers who can take what ever liberties they want with it. That might be a lot of fun. But we would need to give the film makers total control, including changing dialogue if they choose.

I second (or third) the need for some sort of constraints on length/time.

#17 RJANACONDA

RJANACONDA

    Pimp Tight Member

  • Members
  • 360 posts

Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:02 PM

I am down to enter i could use a good comp to hone my skills oh and how about

"Ultimate Universal Underground or U3 for short"
"RJANACONDA WINS" based off the card game "Iwin"
"Enter this comp and win an iPAD" to get more people to enter and then give the winner an iPAD box with an EYE PATCH in it
"This competion is too cool for a catchey name"
"NCN" (No catchey name) and in the script you could have "NCN News"

twitch.tv/rjanime picarto.tv/rjanime  youtube.com/c/rjanime facebook.com/rjanime


#18 yourmachinima

yourmachinima

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:18 AM

thumbs up this thread, here from my side always available to collaborate
Posted Image

#19 Harb40

Harb40

    When will it get better?

  • Members
  • 2,179 posts
  • LocationPhoenix, AZ

Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:58 PM

What about this idea:

We set up 7 polls with 4 or 5 choices each.
1) Genre
2) Location
3) Lead male name
4) Lead female name
5) Prop required (I know all the engines may not have the same props but something like a bat could be a piece of wood or a lead pipe, a cane could be a crutch or something else to walk with, etc)
6) A required line or lines to use.
7) Length of competition (3 weeks, 5 weeks, etc)

Let the polls run for a specific amount of time and then take the top vote-getter from each one and set that as the theme. You could consider it something the same as the 48 Hour Film Festival or Mefune's Trailer comp but the community decides the specifics.

Any thoughts?

The Passion Competition is now on Facebook.  Like our page.


#20 rgr

rgr

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 198 posts

Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:44 PM

What about this idea:

We set up 7 polls with 4 or 5 choices each.
1) Genre
2) Location
3) Lead male name
4) Lead female name
5) Prop required (I know all the engines may not have the same props but something like a bat could be a piece of wood or a lead pipe, a cane could be a crutch or something else to walk with, etc)
6) A required line or lines to use.
7) Length of competition (3 weeks, 5 weeks, etc)

Let the polls run for a specific amount of time and then take the top vote-getter from each one and set that as the theme. You could consider it something the same as the 48 Hour Film Festival or Mefune's Trailer comp but the community decides the specifics.

Any thoughts?


This doesn't appeal to me, personally. I write mostly to scratch an itch. This is more like craft or trade, which isn't really how I want to spend my ever more limited spare time. I know a lot of writing courses use this approach, so there must be something in it. But I'm not attracted to it. (To be honest, I'm not attracted to the 48 hour film contest either, but that's certainly quite successful this may in fact be the way to go here, just not for me.)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users